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Credit: Returning to Water, Casey Murano
“There's been this long history of folks like scientists who are looking at the material world, the external world, and folks who are looking at the inner world and recognizing they have to be in dialogue with each other. And I think the same goes for our civic life.”
Joining us as our third guest of Season 3, we welcome Elizabeth Garlow, a Senior Fellow at New America and co-founder of the Francesco Collaborative. Her work focuses on transforming economic systems by challenging conventional approaches to finance and investment, offering a heart-centered practice that promotes repair and ecological flourishing. Hosted by co-hosts Ceasar McDowell and Ayushi Roy, this episode invites us to reflect on the relatedness between ourselves and our environment. Together with Elizabeth, they explore faith-centered wisdom practices as a source of inspiration for shifting from extractive economic behaviors to a more caring and sustainable approach to our common home.
‘Resistance to change’ is a mindset often tied to preservation. When your current way of life offers favorable returns, is fondly familiar, or promises the potential of a thriving life, the call for change can feel disruptive and generate fear. It is especially difficult to consider change when all you know and what is consistently reinforced is your own way of life. Change can feel entirely uprooting. However, as Elizabeth highlights, failing to step back and see the bigger picture can lead to significant pitfalls. From a position of privilege, you may neglect how your patterns of accumulation or consumption impact the broader community. From a position of disadvantage, if accepting reality as it is, you may overlook how your experience of resource scarcity is impacted by happenings outside of your control. While this is not always the case (see: Sasha’s episode where they highlight the Black radical notion of double consciousness), it is often an experience of those who are overwhelmed by the demands of their daily lives. So, we must ask:
How can we cultivate awareness and courage to embrace our interdependence when it challenges our sense of reality and stability?
Elizabeth tackles this question by offering a sobering perspective on the concept of economy, tracing its etymological roots to reveal that it originally means "tending to our ecology." Through this lens, we gain awareness that we are part of a broader, interconnected system built on mutual dependence and belonging. Rather than focusing on what might be lost by changing, this perspective shifts our attention toward collective stewardship, emphasizing our shared responsibility to meet our needs while caring for the communities we call home. Recognizing this role, we open ourselves to new ways of thinking, making it possible to embrace change with purpose instead of fear.
However, combating resistance to change simply by offering a more holistic way of doing things is not the complete remedy. What is missed, as Elizabeth points out, is the appeal to the heart. In a world where conventional logic prioritizes risk and return, and quantitative measurement of progress dictates value, we often fail to draw upon the wisdom embedded in our stories and lived experiences. Even further, we fail to integrate the knowledge systems that generate these stories altogether, maintaining a separation between our working lives and our spiritual lives.
So, how do we bring these two worlds together and create a new system that’s fully accountable to all its parts?
Elizabeth highlights the insights of systems theorist Meg Wheatley and theoretician Grace Lee Boggs, emphasizing the importance of forming strong connections with those committed to systemic change. By aligning networks of practitioners and thought-leaders, we can build a resilient foundation that strengthens our capacity to make economic decisions which benefit everyone. Curtis Ogden and Lindsey Smalling also explore this approach to systems thinking in their episodes, reinforcing the idea that collective action and interconnectedness are key to meaningful community transformation.
Elizabeth leaves us with a call to take collective responsibility and fully reclaim our individual inheritance of wisdom practices. She elevates indigenous frameworks around oneness with the natural world and contemplative Christian traditions around neighborliness as examples. If we can put our material and inner worlds in greater dialogue, and lean into our moral convictions, then realizing a thriving community for all becomes a much greater possibility.
Until next time! Look forward to our next release on March 5th where we connect with Lee Farrow on Building Community out of Love.
To view more of Elizabeth’s work, check out:
A Worldview of Care & a New Economics | American Academy of Arts and Sciences
Ecological economics can help us build a better world | National Catholic Reporter
Beyond Industrial Policy by Anne-Marie Slaughter & Elizabeth Garlow - Project Syndicate
Where to Ethically Put Money? How to Resource a Just Transition
For more on organizing faith spaces:
Love and respect are crucial for driving social change. Indeed, we should place greater emphasis on caring for the future and for others.
Elizabeth Garlow’s episode is a powerful reminder that rethinking economics starts with re-centering care, connection, and our shared ecology. Her insight that economy originally means “tending to our ecology” beautifully reframes our understanding, shifting focus from profit to stewardship.
What struck me most was her call to integrate heart-centered wisdom and spiritual traditions into how we approach systemic change. In contrast, much of what we see on <a href="https://magistvdl.com">TV</a>—through both news and entertainment—often reinforces the status quo of consumption and individualism. It rarely invites us to question the deeper stories we live by.
This conversation does just that. By exploring our interdependence and the emotional resistance to change, it opens space for new narratives—ones rooted in belonging, responsibility, and care. We need more of this kind of dialogue, not just in podcasts, but in our mainstream cultural spaces.