The Icons, Emilie Flamme

“What are the normative bounds with which we are working in? How are these bounds inherited from traditions that are often themselves laden with power structures that we have not necessarily been able to break down because they are the things which we use to be able to speak our words?”

Joining us as our fifth guest of Season 3, we welcome Emilie Flamme, urban planner and co-author of The Universe of Terms: Religion and Visual Metaphor. Hosted by Ceasar McDowell and Ayushi Roy, this episode takes us on an exploration of how our belief systems and spatial politics shape our engagement with the world. Together, they challenge us to break down normative structures of power, prompting us to question: Is our ability to engage with our beliefs creatively the missing link?

“Whatever spirit is, and the term has many meanings, you usually have to get rid of some other encumbering things in order to get at it. The spirit of spirit, if you will, is demolition.” — Emily Ogden

To realize ourselves requires demolition. Emilie highlights this paradox, noting how we often engage with inherited structures without questioning their impact. Whether these are systems of faith, social conventions, or spatial frameworks, we rarely ask whether breaking them down is necessary. Normative structures of power shape our privileges and constraints, limiting our sense of possibility and suppressing unconventional thinking. And yet, if freeing ourselves from these boundaries is the goal:

Can we afford to be uncritical?

One of the episode’s most thought-provoking discussions revolves around the arbitrary nature of normative boundaries. We often uphold conventions without acknowledging the walls they build. While these walls may offer security for identity, they also absolve us of ethical responsibility for realities beyond them. This indifference, this act of inaction, allows pressing issues requiring collaboration across ideological or physical borders to go unresolved. In response, Emilie prompts us to ask:

How do we step outside of convention to engage meaningfully with difference? What are the possibilities for creative transformation?

Emilie and our hosts explore the idea that meaningful engagement requires a shift in perspective. We must become comfortable with the idea that our beliefs can change. Many religious texts reflect ongoing conversations, dialogues that evolve over time, shaping thought and practice. If we can embrace this spirit of fluidity, perhaps we can open ourselves to deeper forms of connection and understanding as well.

Challenging convention is not simply about dismantling structures but about embracing the creative potential within ourselves. By engaging deeply and creatively with our experiences, our faith, intuition, and personal narratives, we gain the ability to see beyond established frameworks and question the systems that shape power. This act of reimagination invites us to participate in the world not as passive recipients of inherited traditions, but as active agents of transformation. When we commit to this practice, we carve out new possibilities for justice, belonging, and collective engagement, guided not by the limits of convention but by the expansiveness of human creativity.

Until next time! Look forward to our next release on April 2nd, where we connect with John Ziegler on Mucking it Up.

What Emilie is Currently Exploring

Emilie’s current work focuses on climate adaptation and city decarbonization, both in the United States and internationally. These efforts have led her to reflect deeply on how structural and systemic processes shape the places we inhabit, influencing pathways to futures we may or may not want. A quote from The Universe of Terms by Abou Farman has particularly resonated with her in this work:

“[H]uman forces driving catastrophic climate change — an era known as the Anthropocene — make the human doubt the future it had claimed as its domain to shape, the control and mastery it once thought it would exercise over the architecture of the future, the freedom it promised itself in opening up the future beyond destiny and fate. / [T]here is no universal human world that is going to end; rather, under the rhetoric of universal humanity, people are mobilizing, again, to save particular worlds from destruction. / Which human world do you want to see end?”

— Farman, Abou. “human.” The Immanent Frame. March 13, 2020.

As part of her ongoing reflections, Emilie turns to artistic expression, particularly photography, as a way of exploring the intersection of climate, space, and power. Below are two photographs she has taken while working: one in Philipsburg, Sint Maarten (Tree Power), and another in Huntsville, Alabama (Bird + Crossing Powerlines). These images capture the tension between infrastructure, environment, and the unseen forces that shape our surroundings.

Tree Power

Bird + Crossing Powerlines