Photo provided by John Zeigler

“You’ve got to be able to let the E-Go… and be humble in these spaces.” — John Zeigler

Joining us as one of our final guests of Season 3, we welcome John Zeigler, career community organizer, activist, and Director of the Egan Office of Urban Education and Community Partnerships at DePaul University. Hosted by Ceasar McDowell and Ayushi Roy, this episode delves into the challenge of connecting the relational dots between the public and public-serving institutions. Together they reflect on how creativity, humility, and respect-building are critical tools for authentic engagement and how these values can shift the culture of convening from performative to transformative.

One of the persistent problems plaguing American democracy is the tension between institutional efficiency and public participation. Institutions often argue that increasing citizen involvement slows down decision-making and complicates implementation. At the same time, limiting that participation reduces the institution’s responsiveness to community needs, ultimately leading to policies that fail those they are meant to serve. Attempts to resolve this tension tend to focus on building processes to balance efficiency and transparency. But approaches to this work can be overly technocratic. So, the difficult question remains:

How do we get institutional representatives and the public to see eye-to-eye?

John approaches this question with a deeply grounding perspective. He begins by naming the dynamic that often goes unspoken: institutional representatives carry the weight of their institutions’ history and are seen as extensions of that legacy. In spaces where mistrust is high, this dynamic creates distance and resistance. John suggests that representatives shift away from wielding their positional authority and instead adopt a subjective approach. This means entering engagements not solely as spokespeople for the institution, but as full individuals seeking connection.

This shift is not about dressing casually or using informal language. It is about cultivating a culture that opens the door for kinship and mutual respect. When representatives show up without relying on positional power, it creates space for authentic exchange, one rooted not in hierarchy, but in shared humanity.

Creating these conditions is not easy, especially when demands for institutional accountability are high. But as John notes, we must start somewhere. One-on-one engagements offer an effective place to begin. These more intimate interactions can build trust and help form the allyship networks necessary for productive larger convenings. They also offer an opportunity to model the kind of culture we hope to build, one where respect is not just expected, but practiced. But we must ask:

What does it take to stay committed to that culture, especially when the environment is volatile?

Consistency matters. People need to see values embodied over time, not just invoked when convenient. Institutions must be willing to cultivate relationships that go beyond performance, and individuals within those institutions must be prepared to check their own instincts for control. John reminds us that respectability can be found in humility, and that the most powerful shifts happen when people are willing to let go of ego.

Letting the E-Go, as John frames it, means releasing the need to dominate, defend, or retreat. It means leading with presence, not posture. When institutional representatives do this, they create the conditions for deeper cooperation, improving not only governance outcomes, but also the quality of relationships at the heart of public life.

Until next time! Look forward to our season finale release on April 16th, where we close out Season 3 with Travis Rejman on Grace and Community Building.

Explore More of John’s Work

John’s work continues to bridge community organizing, education, and cultural reflection. To dive deeper into his writing and thought leadership, explore these selected pieces:

“Black Masculinity Remixed”
Co-authored with Teon Harden, this chapter appears in Black Men’s Health and examines evolving expressions of Black masculinity through the lens of identity, health, and healing.
Read via Springer

“The Threat of School Closure and Staying Community-Engaged”
In this chapter from Preparing Students to Engage in Equitable Community Partnerships, John reflects on sustaining authentic engagement in the face of structural disinvestment.
View the book on Amazon

To stay updated on his latest work, you can also follow the Egan Office of Urban Education and Community Partnerships at DePaul University.